4K views 10 months ago On CBS News’ ‘48 Hours: The Snapchat Clue,’ the viewers learn about. He had great hair. There are texts that would lead one to believe so yea. The defendant's then-girlfriend takes the stand. John Nelson, Dep. Connect Caitlin Nejedlo Preschool Teacher Greater Madison Area. Prom Dresses Vintage. 3M Followers, 138 Following, 651 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 李元玲 (@cathrynli)During the investigation into Bart and Krista’s disappearance, Chandler’s girlfriend, Cathryn (Cat) Mellender, allowed investigators to gather data from her phone, according to CBS’ 48 Hours. Girlfriend of Chandler - He passed his parents away in Madison, WI and this spoiled brat is accused of ending the lives of his wonderful parents. Listen to the gripping details of the world's most brutal murders presented to you by two attorneys who rely on their sarcasm and wit to plow through the horrors of the crimes. Halderson is charged in the death's of his parents, Bart and Krista Halderson after he initially reported them as missing in July 2021. Senior forensic scientist Denise Jones takes the stand. Join our cozy true crime community. Possible relatives for Kenneth Mellender include Eric Abernethy, David Abernethy, Michael Thompson and several others. 1/6/22 Chandler Halderson's Ex-Girlfriend Breaks Down on the Stand. and Georgiana M. . Investigations into the missing parents would eventually lead to the discovery of the couple in two different locations. Get Krista Mccandless's 🔍 contact information, 📞 phone numbers, 🏠 home addresses, age, background check, white pages, social media profiles, places of employment, resumes and CV, skilled experts, photos and videos, arrest records, business records, publications and newsOn the night of May 30, 1997, Brandaline “Brandy” Rose Duvall left a friend's house in her red Chicago Bulls shirt and headed towards a bus stop to catch a ride home. On July 8, 2021, the authorities searched a property in rural Dane County, Wisconsin, which belonged to the family of Chandler’s then-girlfriend, Cathryn Mellender. Watch. MADISON (WKOW) — Chandler Halderson's former girlfriend, Cathryn Mellender, took the stand Thursday afternoon. Connect Chaz Halderson -- United States. David Mellander Found 7 people in North Carolina, Armed Forces and 9 other states. The mother of Chandler's then-girlfriend takes the stand. Now CBS' 48 Hours have revealed that it was Chandler's girlfriend, Cathryn "Cat" Mellender who allowed investigators to gather data from her phone during the investigation into Bart and Krista's. Sims heard that Chandler had cheated on Mellender in the past, so she would keep tabs on him. 20 - WI v. More like this. There is also evidence of her coming and going from the 1st to the 7th when you watch the video specialist show vehicles coming and going over the period of the week that Chandler was disposing of those bodies and using the. Kendrick and Cathryn MellenderPARENTS DISMEMBERED TRIAL: DAY 4 - The jury watched video of #ChandlerHalderson being arrested after allegedly lying to investigators. The former girlfriend of Chandler Halderson, Catheryn Mellender, also testified Thursday. Cathryn genuinely cared about his parents and would have wanted to help. Cathryn Mellender performs at the Gary N-Ski studio for the Lodi Art Walk. com, la ex novia de Halderson, Cathryn Mellender, testificó que pensaba que Halderson asistía a una escuela técnica y trabajaba en American Family Insurance y que trabajaría para Elon Musk en SpaceX en Florida. . – Listen to EP91: Deuce-Seven's Barbaric Murder of Brandy Duvall by Crimes and Consequences instantly on your tablet, phone or browser -. Gravatt described “Chaz” as popular with women. 3-WI v. Dresses. Join Facebook to connect with Cathryn Mellender Lopez and others you may know. 1-WI v. When Chandler Halderson reported his parents missing, authorities launched an extensive search around their home in Wisconsin. Jim cute. Halderson: Defense Opening Statement. Chandler Halderson - Dismembered Parents TrialHappening in Court:Dulce Mellender - Defendant's Ex-Girlfriend's Mom Cresent L'sai - Dulce. Halderson had shared his Snapchat location with his girlfriend who. Halderson: Dep. Satin Dresses. College student Cathryn Mellender, known as “Cat,” was his longtime girlfriend. 1209 Macarthur Rd, Madison, WI 53714 • 608-2410290 • 608-2413781 • 608-2415221. College student Cathryn Mellender, known as "Cat," was his longtime girlfriend. She was a regular visitor at his parent’s home where he lived in Windsor. An associated email address for Kenneth Mellender is kennm, Background info: relatives, jobs, social network profiles - Radaris people search engine. Chandler Halderson is on trial for the murder of his parents, Bart, 50, and Krista, 53, in July. Hayley Collins-LaFevre. Published: 27 Jun, 2022. 03/09/1940 – 03/30/2022. By then, Chandler had already been arrested for. 1,689 Followers, 351 Following, 1,478 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Paul Mellender (@paulmellender)Drew And Mike – November 6, 2022. Chandler Halderson's AND Cathryn Mellender's squad ride to police station for additional questioning 1:29:13 comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment“@LawCrimeNetwork Jurors are being shown Snapchat messages between Mellender and the defendant. After roughly two hours of deliberations, a Dane County jury found Chandler Halderson. . Chandler Halderson: Parents Dismembered Trial. Cathryn is. College student Cathryn Mellender, known as “Cat,” was his longtime girlfriend. Mellender testifies the defendant told her his job at SpaceX was delayed due to Mitchell Halderson's illness and eventually #ChandlerHalderson's fall. I agree. Duration: 1h 27m 32s. Cathryn Mellender, the former girlfriend of Chandler Halderson, who is accused of killing his wife, Cathy, and their infant daughter, testified in court on Thursday. . . May 16, 2016 - Jalisco. Parents Dismembered (2022) | Cathryn Mellender Pt2 - Wi V. 1-WI v. He kept up on appearances. John A. 23-year-old Eagle Scout #ChandlerHalderson is accused. com; Addresses: 2201 48Th St E, Tuscaloosa, AL 35405; 421 25Th St E, Tuscaloosa, AL 35401; 6620 10Th, Oklahoma City, OK 73127; 7964 Fountain Ave,. com. . She provided testimony admitting to being with Chandler July 1st through the 7th. May 21, 2016 - Explore Dulce Mellender's board "Ballet Folklorico Mexicano Zihua" on Pinterest. As part of the investigation, the authorities searched the property of the family of Chandler’s then-girlfriend; he had been dating Cathryn Mellender. 5, 2023. Drew And Mike – November 6, 2022 . She told prosecutors that she was the one who was likely with Chandler Halderson the most from July 1-7. Cathryn Mellender. . Connect. Chandler Halderson is having two of his convictions vacated after the judge in his case discovered a potential problem that could have forced him to grant a. Mature and respectful dialogue only. This case happened in Madison, WI and this spoiled. WI v. . This is the interrogation of Cat Mellender. Halderson: Prosecution Opening Statement. In July of 2021 Chandler Halderson shot his father Bart Halderson and mother Krista Halderson after they were about to discover a web of lies Chandler had we. He grew up in Kimberly, WI and graduated from. Alex Gravatt: He was a relatively attractive guy. Bart and Krista Halderson had everything a couple could want: a beautiful home in Windsor, Wisconsin, and two sons they adored. Facebook gives. One major argument being about her phone. Pin on Ballet Folklorico Mexicano Zihua. That one person comments on everything about her guilt. #ChandlerHalderson #HaldersonTrial #CathrynMellender #CatMellender #Mellender #HaldersonCount- Statute- Description1----940. The defendant's then-girlfriend takes the stand. . On Wednesday July 7 2021 Chandler reported his parents missing to the Dane County Sheriffs Office. Cathryn Mellender is a photographer who truly embraces the quirky side of the medium, capturing unique and memorable moments in time through humor, creativity, and a touch of absurdity. It was updated on Aug. Chandler’s ex-girlfriend was later identified in court as Cathryn Mellender. View contact information: phones, addresses, emails and networks. We’ve already heard that defendant’s car was seen in field with the hatch up on July 5. He became close to Cathryn’s mother Dulce Mellender as well. . . College student Cathryn Mellender, known as "Cat," was his longtime girlfriend. View contact information: phones, addresses, emails and networks. HALDERSON (2022) 23-year-old Eagle Scout Chandler Halderson is accused of murdering and dismembering his parents in July 2021. Josh Seeley & Dep. He does not d. There's an issue and the page could not be loaded. Who is Cathryn Mellender? Before we dive into the world of Cathryn Mellender photos, let’s take a moment to get to know the woman behind the lens. Chandler told them he worked for the police as a rescue diver on top of his insurance job and going to school. 2-WI v. Married since 1994, Bart, 50, and Krista Halderson, 53, were childhood sweethearts. Explore. This is a hate and drama F. . Prosecution Closing Argument. David Mellender. The Snapchat Clue: With Erin Moriarty. When Bart and Krista Halderson suddenly disappeared in July 2021, their son, Chandler, alerted police. Van Dinter, 82, passed away peacefully of Parkinson’s Disease complicated by Lewy Body Dementia on Wednesday, March 30, 2022, at a local nursing home. Cathryn, a nationally recognized pediatrician with more than 30 years of. Note for YouTube's review team, here is the context of the video: this is an. Where is Chandler Halderson’s Ex-Girlfriend Cathryn Mellender Now? FL Sports News 1. 05. Facebook gives people the power to. Cathryn Mellender was the former girlfriend of Chandler Halderson, who was convicted of killing his parents in 2021. WI v. Motive would be to make Cathryn happy by marrying her after the family money was made available. How about her sharing her dream home with chandler and her calling him Hubby? Cmon, how blind are people to the her? Pay attention closely. The Ex-girlfriend Cat's testimony for study group. "Mr. 702 Vera Ct, Madison, WI 53704. CHARGES: Victim Bart Halderson: COUNT 1: First-degree Intentional Homicide. . Another Cathryn Mellender interview with her lawyer present. Dec 30, 2015 Updated Dec 30, 2015. Halderson 2022) Court TV Archives. Chandler's girlfriend, Cathryn "Cat" Mellender, allowed investigators to download data from her phone. Mitchell, 24, who labored in tech, Chandler, 23, a school pupil residing at dwelling. Bart was forever practical and eager to help and Krista shared. 23-year-old Eagle. This is the. This story originally aired on Nov. Danny Mellender Dave Melinder. To everyone’s shock, in a wooded area, they found Bart’s headless torso under some sticks with a gunshot wound to the back. Cristina Figueroa Soto. Alex Gravatt: He was a relatively attractive guy. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. On July 7, 2021, Chandler reported Bart and Krista missing, He would claim they left home on July 2, 2021, for their property in Langlade County, Wisconsin. This recap of Doctor Who Season 12, Episode 1, “Spyfall — Part One”, contains spoilers. Age 54 / Mar 1969. I feel badly for her, what a clusterfuck situation for a then 21-year old. Cathryn got on well with Chandler’s parents Bart and Krista Halderson. Now, around six months after the investigation began, Chandler's near monthlong trial begins. A medical evaluation would state that Alyssa was “psychologically damaged” and “severely. I don't think he's enjoying jail. Live Coverage: WI v. 15-WI v. He kept up on. Please Sub to my 2nd Circus channel Leaked from Crime Circus Cult. That visit, prosecutors said, was part of yet another ruse–he used the pool at that property for “therapy” he didn’t need as an. Cat Mellender had convinced Chandler to let her track his movements using Snapchat — the popular social media app which allows users to send messages and share their location. Live Coverage: WI v. During the trial, the killer’s former girlfriend Cathryn “Cat” Mellender and her mother Dulce Mellender testified about having Halderson at their property near where investigators found Bart’s torso. The interrogation of Cathryn Mellender, Chandler Halderson's girlfriend at the time of his parents murder. She testified that he was the one who spent the most time with her before his arrest and that he lied about his job and grades. Halderson. " #ChandlerHalderson @LawCrimeNetwork”Toddlers Made Easy is a short, 10 minute, bite-sized podcast that gives you the insight, tools, and confidence you need to not only handle anything toddler-related thrown your way —but prevent problem behaviors before they start. Will this evidence be. She lives in Wisconsin and has a pet dog. Evaluate Cathryn Mellender's women's tennis recruiting profile. IMPORTANT testimony from the mother of #ChandlerHalderson gf. . We’ve already heard that defendant’s car was seen in field with the hatch up on July 5. HALDERSON (2022) | Cathryn Mellender PT2 -- The defendant's then-girlfriend takes the stand. He was born on March 9, 1940, in Appleton WI, the son of Edward J. . Break. . I mean he looked good. Chandler Halderson - Dismembered Parents TrialHappening in Court:Dulce Mellender - Defendant's Ex-Girlfriend's Mom Cresent L'sai - Dulce. Halderson: Michael Boldt & Det. . Según Madison. Most unfortunate she was appointed /retained the great Chris Farley’s lamer, uglier brother as counsel to represent her interests! This legal professional has shades on the head for his CLIENT’s interview. Halderson: Mitchell Halderson. Get Candler Crim's 🔍 contact information, 📞 phone numbers, 🏠 home addresses, age, background check, white pages, resumes and CV, photos and videos, social media profiles, public records, work history, skilled experts, arrest records, places of employment and business recordsBart and Krista Halderson had every little thing a pair may need: a lovely dwelling in Windsor, Wisconsin, and two sons they adored. WI v. The second season of Doctor Who under showrunner Chris Chibnall premiered on New Year’s Day on BBC1 and Jodie Whitaker was back as The Doctor, and so was her. Refreshing. Det Timothy Blanke – Dane County Sheriff’s Ofc. In today's true crime documentary, we're covering the case of Deasia Watkins. Halderson: Prosecution Opening Statement. Now CBS' 48 Hours have revealed that it was Chandler's girlfriend, Cathryn "Cat" Mellender who allowed investigators to gather data from her phone during the investigation into Bart and Krista's. Catherine Mellender is now the ex girlfriend of Chandler Halderson let’s hear what she has to say for herself in this emotional interview. Louie Fecou joined the Ready Steady Cut writing team back in August 2018 as an Entertainment Writer and, since then, has published over 1,000 articles for the site. Shop. Cat seems distant. Bart and Krista Halderson had a beautiful home in Windsor, Wisconsin, and two adult sons they adored, so when Bart and Krista suddenly disappeared in July 2021, it stunned their community. HALDERSON (2022) | The defendant's then-girlfriend takes the stand. Detectives say Mellender would keep tabs on her boyfriend using a Snapchat. HALDERSON (2022) | Cathryn Mellender PT2 -- The defendant's then-girlfriend takes the stand. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. In July of 2021 Chandler Halderson shot his father Bart Halderson and mother Krista Halderson after they were about to discover a web of lies Chandler had we. See more ideas about ballet folklorico, ballet, dance. 27 News has put together a full timeline of events in leading up to the trial, and the information begins. Cathryn Mellender – Defendant’s Ex-Girlfriend. Cathryn’s Instagram account is one of the few that showcases the artist’s personal life, creative process. They were welcoming and loving. Possible relatives for Dulce Mellender include John Vandinter, Hugo Garcia, Maureen Vandinter and several others. Righteous Rick eulogizes his friend Aaron Carter, Eli Zaret drops by after a Detroit Lions victory, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, Drew Crime, Kim Kardashian’s angry voicemail, and we check in with Mattress Mack after winning $75. Cristina Figueroa Soto takes the stand. You can check out our thoughts on the previous season by clicking these words. 5-WI v. According to Chandler, his mother texted him on July 4, 2021, but he said he didn’t hear from them after that. Chandler reported his parents missing on July 7, telling authorities they never returned after spending the 4th of July weekend with another couple. Josh Seeley & Dep. Chandler Halderson: Parents Dismembered Trial. 95K subscribers 3. Chandler's girlfriend, Cathryn "Cat" Mellender, gave investigators permission to download data from her phone. 2-WI v. Detective Sabrina Sims heard that Mellender would track Halderson’s real-time location using Snapchat because he had cheated on her in the past. 3MB) Righteous Rick eulogizes his friend Aaron Carter, Eli Zaret drops by after a Detroit Lions victory, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, Drew Crime, Kim Kardashian’s angry voicemail, and we check in with Mattress Mack. Her page is a reflection of her creative work, which includes illustrations, paintings, and photographs. The former girlfriend of Chandler Halderson Catheryn Mellender also testified Thursday. 10 Most Disturbing Moments on Undercover BossA jury on Thursday found a Wisconsin man guilty in the murder and dismemberment of his parents last summer. She said she cooperated with police and gave them access to her phone and computer, and she shared screenshots of their messages. Deputy District Attorney William Brown shows Chandler Halderson's former girlfriend, Cathryn Mellender, a photograph of the farm where Bart Halderson's torso was found. I mean he looked good. (Theyssen) Van Dinter. College student Cathryn Mellender, known as "Cat," was his longtime girlfriend. Halderson, quien le dijo a los medios “los encontraremos”, denunció la. He had great hair. . The child would be led to a secluded woodland area, with the help of Alyssa’s younger sibling, where the child was stabbed and placed in a makeshift grave. Mitchell, 24, who worked in tech, Chandler, 23, a college student living at home. In July of 2021 Chandler Halderson shot his father Bart Halderson and mother Krista Halderson after they were about to discover a web of lies Chandler had we. 19 - WI v. 5, 2022. Chandler told the detective he helped his parents pack up tools, including a pipe wrench, hatchet and gas cans for. . Add to My Podcasts. . I mean he looked good. He had great hair. An opening statement is not a fact, it’s an allegation of intent to prove. Pinterest. He kept up on. Cathryn Mellender was the girlfriend of Chandler Halderson. @LawCrimeNetwork”View the profiles of people named Cathryn Mellender Lopez. The prosecution delivers their closing argument. Dancer Dress. 19-WI v. 20-WI v. Bart and Krista Halderson, a working couple from Wisconsin, were reported missing by their 23-year-old son Chandler Halderson in July 2021, who informed authorities that they went to the family cabinIn today's true crime documentary, we're covering the case of Chandler Halderson. 16. In early 2021, Wisconsin man Chandler "Chaz" Michael Halderson, 23, appeared to be a pretty impressive guy, according to opening statements in his murder trial. . Women's Fashion. Cathryn Mellender's where is she now? Chandler Halderson's ex-girlfriend and where she is today in 2023 are discussed in this article. Gravatt described "Chaz" as popular with women. Gonna be a good year for content please help this circus grow – Check out my playlist for more M0M KlLLERS, it’s happening a lot in the last few years. Where is Cathryn Mellender now? Where is Nikolai Belikov Now? Dmitri Pajitnov – Tetris Movie Tribute Explained; Article by Louie Fecou. Alex Gravatt: He was a relatively attractive guy. Along the way, Brandy encountere. In July of 2021 Chandler Halderson shot his father Bart Halderson and mother Krista Halderson after they were about to discover a web of lies Chandler had we. Halderson: Dulce Mellender. 2:26:34. Chandler had big ambitions –Read Madison Wisconsin State Journal Newspaper Archives, Jul 26, 2007, p. His former girlfriend Cathryn “Cat” Mellender and her mother Dulce Mellender testified about having Halderson at their property near where investigators found Bart’s torso. Note for YouTube's review team, here is the context of the video: this is a docu. I mean he looked good. Halderson: Cathryn Mellender. She was a member of St. Sims heard that Chandler had cheated on Mellender in the past, so she would keep tabs on him. Join Facebook to connect with Cat Millender and others you may know. The true crime genre is still expanding, and there is a fascinating but heartbreaking documentary that armchair detectives have been consuming. related to Joe Mellender, 88 Richard Gadwah, 59 Thelma Mellender, 87 Amy Mellender, 60 Barbara Mellender, 65. Halderson: Dep. November 6, 2022 Drew Lane. 01(1)(a) 1st-Degree Intentional H. Cathryn Mellender. Hayley Collins-LaFevre. Learn how this Lafollette High School student is connecting with coaches in WI and nationwide. View the profiles of people named Cat Millender. Crimes and Consequences. The fifteen-year-old Alyssa planned and murdered her nine-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten. Cathryn "Cat" Mellender, the missing couple's younger son Chandler's girlfriend, gave authorities access to her phone data when they found the most crucial piece of evidence in the case that led. Check resumes and CV, places of employment, public records, social media profiles, photos and videos, arrest records, work history, news and business records. Witnesses spotted Chandler multiple times at the farm where his father was recovered, and as for Krista, Chandler’s girlfriend at the time, Cathryn “Cat” Mellender offered a crucial piece of. Cathryn Chandler Found 24 people in Texas, Florida and 22 other states. Reload page. " He said, "Yeah I just had a great future planned and its all falling apart. Dulce and Cathryn. Chandler Halderson - Dismembered Parents TrialHappening in Court:Dulce Mellender - Defendant's Ex-Girlfriend's Mom Cresent L'sai - Dulce. Channel: COURT TV Trials. Cathryn’s mother, Dulce Mellender, was in a relationship with Cresent L’Sai. 253 Followers, 137 Following, 153 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Dulce Mellender (@dmellender) 20 - WI v. 2016 - Dulce Mellender hat diesen Pin entdeckt. Entdecke (und sammle) deine eigenen Pins bei Pinterest. 23-year-old Eagle Scout #ChandlerHalderson is accused of murdering and dismembe. Cathryn Cohee; Catheryn Cohee; Catharine Cohee; Cathleen Cohee; Cat Cohee; Phones (205) 752-6234 (205) 758-6857 (405) 787-2254 (760) 734-4456; Emails: space***@harbornet. . Cathryn Mellender. This is the only chance youre going to have to tell us the truth Detective William Hendrickson told. IMPORTANT testimony from the mother of #ChandlerHalderson gf. She is reconciling the truth from fiction slowly with Chandler. Alex Gravatt: He was a relatively attractive guy. Chandler Halderson: Parents Dismembered Trial. Mature and resp. Louie has proven experience in. . Chandler’s girlfriend, Cathryn “Cat” Mellender, allowed investigators to download data from her phone. Court and police records are heavily relied on to ensure the accuracy of each episode. Their case will typically involve testimony, through those witnesses they introduce evidence. After roughly two hours of deliberations, a Dane County jury found Chandler Halderson, 23, guilty on all counts for killing his parents Bart, 50, and Krista, 53, on July 1 at their home in Windsor. They were. “@LawCrimeNetwork C. Chandler's girlfriend, Cathryn "Cat" Mellender, allowed investigators to download data from her phone. . Esto es lo que necesita saber: 1. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Halderson: Cathryn Mellender PT2. 3-WI v. The Windsor, Wisconsin, residents were compassionate, industrious, loving partners and parents. More like this. Chandler had huge ambitions – he talked of getting his IT diploma, of his promising internship at an insurance coverage firm, and. Dr. An associated email address for Dulce Mellender is dmellen@msn. Sims heard that Chandler had cheated on Mellender in the past, so she would keep tabs. Cathryn Mellender PT2. He’d been with his girlfriend Cathryn Mellender, who was 21 years old, for almost two years. Live Coverage: WI v. I mean he looked good. Cress seemed to be the sane one out of Mellender bunch and I really hope she finds a new girlfriend who will help her to heal from that awful experience Dulce has put her through (by that I mean Dulce's support of Chandler, I don't mean the murders are her fault ofc). Reminds me of Sophia Loren. Something went wrong. A phone number. Check resumes and CV, photos and videos, social media profiles, skilled experts, places of employment, publications, work history, arrest records and public records. Alex Gravatt: He was a relatively attractive guy. Denise Jones. Witnesses spotted Chandler multiple times at the farm where his father was recovered, and as for Krista, Chandler’s girlfriend at the time, Cathryn “Cat” Mellender offered a crucial piece of. has lived in Nokesville, VA Vienna, VA Bealeton, VA Chantilly, VA. Toddlers Made Easy is hosted by Dr. His former girlfriend Cathryn “Cat” Mellender and her mother Dulce Mellender testified about having Halderson at their property near where investigators found Bart’s torso. Sabrina Sims. Cathryn does not have a video yet, but here is a SAMPLE of an NCSA professionally edited video. phone number (703) 795-1725 (703) 791-4745 view more. 5312 Trafalger Pl, Madison, WI 53714. Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 3:08:22 — 151. 1005 Woodward Dr, Madison, WI 53704. Please share the cases that interest you in the comments. 1-WI v. ceh Cathryn is a natural beauty. dulce mellender manager at dulvia Madison, WI. 71 with family history and genealogy records from madison, wisconsin 1852-2023. Chandler sounds very down.